"It turns out the trash"
Material posted: Publication date: 29-09-2013

"Sergei Shoigu – a good man, but he somehow believes that he is a great Doc all the questions. And makes its own decisions," – said a member of the heraldic Council under the President of Russia Leonid Turner, commenting in an interview with the newspaper VIEW options for a new logo, proposed by defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

The defense Ministry by the end of the month are going to choose a new logo for uniforms. Informed their opinions on the presented options of logos was expressed by the Russian generals, and last week the head of Department Sergey Shoigu proposed them to the attention of the Public Council under the Ministry of defense. At the exit from the courtroom was installed in the ballot box.

Presents options like not all members of the Public Council. The leader of group "the Moral code" Sergey Mazaev immediately called not to hurry with adoption of the emblems, to which the Minister replied: "Only do not tighten, until the end of September we should choose the logo and approve. Then it will take time for very large circulation, for tenders and so forth." As explained to the newspaper VIEW source in the apparatus of the defense Ministry, "on some global rebranding of the question". "We are not planning to massively change the stars on tanks and planes. Those that now have on technology, it will remain. But in addition to combat vehicles and there is also a form. And not only the one where you go on parades, field exits, but also for everyday wear. For example, t-shirts, tracksuits. The same Souvenirs", – said the source.

That the defense chooses a new logo that will be applied to all military aircraft, tanks, ships and other military equipment, previously told the newspaper RBC daily. According to the publication, prepared by 13 options of emblems: the star and the colors of the Russian flag are present in all embodiments.

In an interview with the newspaper LOOK of the logo options presented Shoigu praised the author of many emblems of civilian agencies, member of the heraldic Council under the President of Russia Leonid Turner.

OPINION: Leonid Nikolaevich, what requirements should be placed the emblems of the armed forces?

Leonid Turner: we already Have emblem of the armed forces – the emblem of the Ministry of defense. Established by the decree of the President of Russia № 46 dated 27 January 1997, it is a double-headed eagle with outstretched wings, holding in his right paw a sword and in his left a Laurel wreath.

The Emblem Of The Russian Armed Forces

The emblem needs to be as simple as possible, in order to apply it through a stencil, and thus to give an understanding of the techniques belonging to certain armed forces of a particular state, it should be easily recognizable.

But if it must be recognizable, whether it was easier to refer to traditions? We have since 1918 used or simply red star, or red star with white trim. This logo is traditional for the armed forces of the USSR. No need to invent something new, and use the traditional sign, especially since he is recognizable.

In General, the need for marking of military equipment in Russia arose before the First world war, when the first copies of aircraft and tanks. Our markings of the period – it is white-blue-red circle. The circle did not appear by accident – it is, figuratively speaking, the ribbon colors of the national flag, gathered in a round socket. So were the badges, therefore identification marks on the technique of the pre-revolutionary period was also called cockades.

Then, when some of the airplanes moved to the red, these white-blue-red circles started to plant a star, but it was a temporary measure. But the use of Soviet symbols and still not in doubt. Civil aviation of the Soviet period also was marked by this sign, and today "Aeroflot" uses the same emblem, the wings on the background of the hammer and sickle.

The projects can hardly be called a logo, this is most likely a logos, because there is graphically depicted the words "Russian Army".

OPINION: do I have a military emblem needs to present the colors of the national flag?

L. T.: Not necessarily. If there's a recognizable symbol, then why do we need the colors of the national flag? Moreover, red star with white trim associated with Russia, the star was used by the Americans, but there the star was white.

OPINION: Not you one say that the new logo is a carbon copy of the American version, some also point to the similarity with the Chinese. This is a worldwide rule creation emblems, or she just created without much imagination?

L. T.: Yes, of course, if you view the 11th, 12th and 13th versions, removing the words "Russian Army", and will reveal markings of the air force of the us army, all your questions will disappear by themselves absolutely clear tracing paper with some modifications. On the emblem the inscription "Army of Russia" is deeply incomprehensible to me, she again turns the emblem in the logo.

The proposed options for the new emblem of the armed forces

The comparison with China is not quite true, the Chinese still edging the yellow star and recently in the center of the star obligatory character.


The emblem of the PLA

You know the history, heraldic tradition, otherwise it's trash. For example, at a time when I was developing the insignia for the Railways, the Russian designer Victoria Andreyanova was developed for the railroad form. In one of my visits I was shown the work of its young designers – a jacket with a missed loop red ribbon with white trim. I ask: "What is it?" Answer: "Well, the ribbon is beautiful". I say: "Anything that resembles the ribbon of the iron cross or the medal for the wounded?" "Oh, we didn't think".

And in discussing the case – forgot to compare to the American version. What I see before me, perfectly illustrates that this was done by people far removed from the symbolism.

OPINION: are you Satisfied with the options from a purely visual, artistic point of view?

L. T.: are Not satisfied. If you like star, then let's star. She traditionally has the right to life. If you want something new without a star, we go back to the fact that there is a formal emblem, which no one bothers to use the technique. You don't like? Sorry, this you took. Then let's modify the decree of the President.

When I design logos I try to get away from statehood. Because the emblem is created for many years and should not depend on the change of state symbols. I've been dealing with this for decades and have developed many departmental symbols. There is a good departmental logo that are worn by the decades, no one is going to change them. On this basis, I – for star on technique.

OPINION: Sergey Mazaev admitted in an interview to our newspaper that he saw in this logo Shoigu, "the cabalistic sign". "If from the center of the star to hold the inner circumference, the outer corners should be a little more blunt, such as were the Star Character – she's rounder, podobry, wide, and sharp geometric video star – this symbol is taken from the Kabbalah", – said Mazaev. How seriously can you take such a rebuke?

L. T.: Mazaeva can be excused, he doesn't know that the stars were different. If we consider the stars that were used as emblems for headgear, the rays were sharp and wide, and narrow, and even ovate-acuminate. Had plenty of options. Therefore, the star is the star draw, so it will be. If we take as an example the Star of Hero of the Soviet Union, such a shape was inherent in her.

In the presented projects in embodiments 9, 10 shows the star in this figure, for many years rendered on our aircraft. The 6th option was also. It was used on the shoulder marks in 1922, when the red outer star in black drew domestic.

OPINION: Who ever has to deal with the creation of the emblems at the state level?

L. T.: To conduct a unified state policy in the field of heraldry in 1999, was created by the Heraldic Council under the President of the Russian Federation, a member of which I am. According to the regulations of the Board, the symbolism of public authorities is the coordination and expertise in the Heraldic Council. In it there are experts.

Sergei Shoigu – a good man, but he somehow believes that he is a great Doc all the questions. And takes unilateral decisions. In defense there is the heraldic service. I don't understand why this question to discuss on a Public Board when there is the Heraldic Council under the President of Russia. Of course, many are grateful to the Minister for what he shoulder straps for field uniform with the belly brought back on the shoulders.

Next, however, is born the so-called office form. Quiet horror, what is there to stick. It's a different story. Why the need for office form? The field is clear. Any form of clothing carries a practical function. If you take the year of 1812 there are different beautiful uniforms. What is it for? Not because it was beautiful, and to the commander of troops seen on the field and lead them. Then a bright form was used to facilitate command and control on the battlefield.


In the first place. Why M. Kitaeva (press Secretary Sergei Shoigu) epaulettes without stars? What General of the army or Admiral of the fleet woman? Why all the shape is different, why the chevrons have someone there, and someone no and why women without hats? It's a uniform violation! (http://nnm.me/blogs/aleeks1/poluchaetsya-haltura/#cut)

As soon as we have automatic weapons and weapons with large firing range, we have a need for camouflage. First encountered this with the British during the Anglo-Boer war, when the troops suffered heavy losses due to the fact that the uniforms were red and were visible in the field. Appears camo. Yet there is a dress uniform. When they say that it should be comfortable, it gives me a skeptical smile. Dress needs to be beautiful, to show the power of the army, and it can be uncomfortable.

There are, in turn, more and everyday form, which is very comfortable to work in the headquarters or in the offices now. Therefore, the appearance of office forms to me absolutely incomprehensible. Moreover, our military leaders to remind her of the African or Latin American countries. Originally rich sewing on the headgear was designed only for the dress uniform. On the daily form was not a lot of sewing. And now look at the cap office. It is entirely embroidered in, just no place living. Why is it to embroider?

Passion of Sergei Shoigu to decorate the uniform stripes is already a byword. There are unwritten rules create a uniform. There are experts that can tell you how to do it right.

Many subordinates are afraid to Express their thoughts higher authorities, but I am a free man and can defend their opinion regardless of position of the interlocutor, whether the defense Minister or even the President. And as a specialist, at least, prompt.


Arsene Hizriev

Source: http://vz.ru/politics/2013/9/24/650988.html

Tags: assessment , Russia , armed forces